Ethical Investment discussion

I wondered what peoples feelings and thoughts were about ethical Investment :thinking:

What would be the boundaries, for example would you be anti investing into a company based in a certain country due to dubious human rights issues?

Which boundaries do you think might be more flexible for the right investment? For example carbon footprint? Animal testing?

Keen to hear everyone’s thoughts.

7 Likes

I think across the board there is no excuse now. You have all the worlds information at your finger tips. You shouldn’t be putting money into something which does harm to anything else.

You can make a solid return without compromising your core principals and beliefs, and nothing needs to be negatively impacted by you!

5 Likes

Agreed but I also think when we are dealing with a large group of people what is and isn’t doing harm to anything else or what is ethical can become very subjective. What might be morally intolerable to a vegan might be ethically equitable to another - dairy farming for example.

6 Likes

This is a really interesting topic Al. I was recently approached and have been invited to invest into a company that pumps oil in Texas. However, they use the profits to turn collecting plastic into a profitable an enterprise. Therefore encouraging the necessary clean up of our planet. They then turn this plastic into high grade oil which reduces the need to pump oil. But then it pumps more CO2 into our atmosphere.
If one is pragmatic about the use of oil, we are not going to turn off societies’ need for it. So, to me, this seems like a profitable way to take a step away from fossil fuels. Check out storh.com. I’d love to hear the communities thoughts on this.
Is this ‘ethical’?

4 Likes

Fascinating…but I couldn’t answer that question. It sounds very complex. Were taught of the inherent bad of fossil fuels but you’re right in pointing out that few of us are in a position to stop using them altogether and then add in the recycling element…this is one of those things I’ll be thinking about trying to sleep tonight.

Awesome comment. Thank you and welcome to our forum👍

4 Likes

Hi Al very good point you are making here.
I would NEVER EVER invest some of my money in something which is harmful for the planet itself OR that harm living creatures OR human rights…this is for sure!!

Let’s say I interpret my investing activity as a way to lend a part of my energy to a possible future. So there is a lot of responsibility if you think in terms of potential outcome not only for my pockets.

For instance it’s been years that i banned Nestlè from my basket for their policy about WATER.

Said this…if we talk about investing into future shaping companies…researches…technologies…i find hard to estimate IF it will have a positive impact on the overall system.
Researches on plastic materials were founded to save animal life…good intention behind it! Today it is a plague.
This is why I tend to think that there is a neat difference between PROGRESS and EVOUTION.

One thing is a groundbreaking technology (PROGRESS), one thing is THE WAY it will be adopted and adapted into our environment…and this is very much dependent to the human way of doing things as a whole (EVOLUTION).

So…i am more prone to invest into companies i HOPE will have a POSITIVE impact on our future and less harming as possible in terms of potential overall damage it could provoke in case of…i don’t know…human stupidity in applying it…? :joy: :joy:

I went long on this one sorry.
Ciao
SteeZ :sunny:

5 Likes

Hi @Tradelta,

Thanks and welcome to the fordum. Very interesting to read your thoughts on this. The environmental issue is so huge now and part of the issue is there are just so many humans on the planet so every new technology needs to be replicated thousands or even millions of times to meet demand. This leaves even the best intented inventions creating issues.

Electric cars for example. Good idea from a eco point of view? Well, not really if we all start buying electric cars the commodities needed to make the batteries would have a huge environmental impact and would be totally unsustainable!

5 Likes

@Al_Wallace thank you for the welcome!
Totally agree. Time expansion of every technology is also a parameter that should be considered indeed.
Is a very fast mass adoption of a given technology, a good thing? mmmmm…I don’t think so. We, as humankind, and the so called RULERS all together, should have the time and wisdom to consider, reconsider, go back on our steps if we see things going in the wrong direction. In the end we live on the same floating boat so…it should be common sense.

The irony in all this is , many times we want to accelerate things and have not enough wisdom to manage things properly :joy: :grimacing:

From my words it could seems i luck of faith in humanity but it is very much the opposite. I have A LOT of faith that people all together can find a way to put things straight!!

3 Likes

Exactly this is my biggest fear as well. The biggest question would be where to draw the line. By focusing too much on ethical investing to could alienate yourself from potential investors who think you are too strict on applying ethical investment rules.
For example I would be happy to invest in a nuclear power station but some people would say this is not an ethical company to invest in

4 Likes

Good point! What is ethical to me could be non ethical or borderline to you. This is what it is…eheheh

2 Likes

I’d like to give, what i believe is an investment trend that is an interesting discussion point - Cannabis.

Let me start by saying that i have no personal interest in Cannabis. never have.

I do think that if we look at the number of US states that are starting to introduce reforms in this area is big news at the moment. From the little amount of research I’ve done into this there’s rumour that money to the tune of 80 billion will flow into this area next year so i think there is surely money to be made
On the negative side, It is a drug and somewhat controversial in terms of the positive effects of use on health and mental health. It’s also worth noting that a lot of Tobacco companies have skin in this game since the Canadian reforms a few years back.

What do you guys think?

4 Likes

You’re right Al. Cannabis is huge now here in the US. It is in the classification of ‘medical’ usage. There are CBD stores popping up all the time in my area (Pennsylvania). Some states, it’s still illegal. Sellers have to get a license, which there is a set number. There are oils, lotions, hair products etc besides the actual ‘buds’. I am not a user of any of it and saw it as a negative, until I started reading about it. (There are tasks on CH for it by (http://CannaCor.io) but that is just one example. If, in the future, I had a medical need, I would probably try it. But, I do think more studies need to be done for long term effects.

3 Likes

Hi guys, here in Italy is happening more or less what @KarenM is telling about Pennsylvania.
This is getting discussed heavily. Cannabis has well known healthy properties as much it has unhealthy effect for extra dosages.
As I was mentioning before, this shows another time how very low capability in managing the DOSE in every aspect of our lives. Be it technology, natural remedies etc.
Beside this i believe that Cannabis market will experience a HUGE expansion in the next 5 years.
Even in this market, as in that of crypto the greatest wall is the LEGAL ISSUE.
The debate is still open everywhere i guess.

3 Likes

I agree with @Tradelta, that this will be a huge market and definitely investable. The US is making laws enabling it as many other countries are and will follow.

2 Likes

@KarenM and @Tradelta both good points but bearing in mind the thread topic…yes, if you invest there’s a reasonably good chance you could profit. Bearing in mind the question marks around health issues relating to recreational use or misuse in general. Is it ethical to do so?

I’d argue not. Let’s imagine years ago when doctors used to promote cigarettes. ( My aunt was actually told by a doctor to start smoking to cure her chest infection! :fearful: True story) we may well have chosen to invest in cigarette stocks? But that would have proven ethically questionable over time.

I suppose my point in the original post is to get Pynksters to start considering different assets as critically as they can both financially but also ethically.

3 Likes

Key words “over time”. Back then no one knew how bad cigarettes were for our health. Now with cannabis, studies are showing health benefits, yet other studies are showing problems-mostly with misuse. That’s where the ethics come in I think. If used for medical purposes and not abused, in my opinion, that is ethical.( Years from now, they may determine it was a bad idea). As mentioned above, what’s ethical to some, may not be ethical to others.

5 Likes

Well that is the big question. If you invest in a tobacco company it is surely unethical investing per definition.

But is it the wrong thing to do? What is your impact if you decide not to invest, the pool of investors decreases, which means the price of the stock will not reach its objective level due to a lower pool of investors. So the profitability or dividend level of these stocks will be higher. And that means by avoiding unethical investments, you rewards conscious unethical investors as their return on investment will be higher.

Second thing is that there are a lot of stocks border line ethical investment depending on the background and beliefs of the investors, so it will always be difficult to draw a clear line.

3 Likes

Hi Al! I try to explain my overall meter for what concern INVESTING and ETHICS to go into detail in the “Cannabis” argument.

For most time in my life i saw money as EVIL in absolute. Non ethical stuff at all as i was perceiving money as the source of all bad things in the world.
Then I understood that money as many other things can be also used to do very good and so i decided to MAKE them to build up a better future in an ethical manner.
Money are just instrument…not the cause. The cause is greed, power, etc…

The same is valid for whatever investment we would like to do to make more money, so that eventually in the future we will be able to fund more projects able to EMPOWER POSITIVE OUTCOMES.

Here comes in the ethical question.
Who says to me that THE PROJECT will be ETHICAL? Meaning…will it be sustainable? will it be human, animal, nature friendly and respectful of the health of all the creature involved in the GREAT CYCLE OF LIFE?
My answer is: WE WILL NEVER KNOW.

As for Cannabis it could have a NEGATIVE impact on someone’s life as much as it could have a POSITIVE one on someone else’s.

The fact is that ETHICS changes in base of the observer’s location…from it’s cultural background.

But there’s a thing I know for sure. There are indeed THINGS I LOOK AFTER to establish if the project could run ethically with a good grade of accuracy.
My personal parameters are:

THE PEOPLE behind the project.
THEIR STATEMENTS and COHERENCE through the evolution of the project.
THE IDEAS behind the evolution of the project.

1 - Is it exclusive or inclusive?
2 - Is it universally harming something?
3 - Is it pro-life in general?
4 - Is it respectful of life given rights?

These are my parameters.

Practical Example: A very well known confectionery industry, trough one of the people of its board declare “we think that water should be a private good.”
Does this statement and the idea behind the project, meet my parameters?
1 - no.
2 - Maybe.
3 - Maybe.
4 - ABSOLUTELY NOT.
2 negatives out of 4…the choice is very simple.

Another example: A company decide to invest in DNA research. They say “We could prevent many health issues and we also could make dinosaurs alive again.”
1 - Arguable.
2 - No.
3 - Yes, leaving religion and ideologies aside.
4 - Not relevant.

A Company produces both life saving devices and weapons. STAY AWAY.

These are the basic things i would like to know if it is ETHIC or non ETHIC.

Cannabis: it is just a project. I would be far more interested to invest in A COMPANY with clear MISSION behind. The project the majority of times is arguable. The COMPANY, the PEOPLE and their COHERENCE never lies.

Sorry about this long thing Al and you all. I just wanted to share with you some of my thoughts in regard of the ETHICAL issue.

Best wishes to you all :smiley:

9 Likes

Hi. I rather prefer investing in companies and/or projects with the most unharmed effects on people or environment as possible. Saying this, I think the hard part to decide is to transparently know the whole supply chain.

3 Likes

Ah @Tradelta you are a good person, I can see that. and a great Pynkster. Together we (you, I and other Pynksters I mean) will change the world my friend :muscle:

5 Likes