Ethical Investment discussion

Exactly this is my biggest fear as well. The biggest question would be where to draw the line. By focusing too much on ethical investing to could alienate yourself from potential investors who think you are too strict on applying ethical investment rules.
For example I would be happy to invest in a nuclear power station but some people would say this is not an ethical company to invest in

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Good point! What is ethical to me could be non ethical or borderline to you. This is what it is…eheheh

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I’d like to give, what i believe is an investment trend that is an interesting discussion point - Cannabis.

Let me start by saying that i have no personal interest in Cannabis. never have.

I do think that if we look at the number of US states that are starting to introduce reforms in this area is big news at the moment. From the little amount of research I’ve done into this there’s rumour that money to the tune of 80 billion will flow into this area next year so i think there is surely money to be made
On the negative side, It is a drug and somewhat controversial in terms of the positive effects of use on health and mental health. It’s also worth noting that a lot of Tobacco companies have skin in this game since the Canadian reforms a few years back.

What do you guys think?

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You’re right Al. Cannabis is huge now here in the US. It is in the classification of ‘medical’ usage. There are CBD stores popping up all the time in my area (Pennsylvania). Some states, it’s still illegal. Sellers have to get a license, which there is a set number. There are oils, lotions, hair products etc besides the actual ‘buds’. I am not a user of any of it and saw it as a negative, until I started reading about it. (There are tasks on CH for it by (http://CannaCor.io) but that is just one example. If, in the future, I had a medical need, I would probably try it. But, I do think more studies need to be done for long term effects.

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Hi guys, here in Italy is happening more or less what @KarenM is telling about Pennsylvania.
This is getting discussed heavily. Cannabis has well known healthy properties as much it has unhealthy effect for extra dosages.
As I was mentioning before, this shows another time how very low capability in managing the DOSE in every aspect of our lives. Be it technology, natural remedies etc.
Beside this i believe that Cannabis market will experience a HUGE expansion in the next 5 years.
Even in this market, as in that of crypto the greatest wall is the LEGAL ISSUE.
The debate is still open everywhere i guess.

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I agree with @Tradelta, that this will be a huge market and definitely investable. The US is making laws enabling it as many other countries are and will follow.

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@KarenM and @Tradelta both good points but bearing in mind the thread topic…yes, if you invest there’s a reasonably good chance you could profit. Bearing in mind the question marks around health issues relating to recreational use or misuse in general. Is it ethical to do so?

I’d argue not. Let’s imagine years ago when doctors used to promote cigarettes. ( My aunt was actually told by a doctor to start smoking to cure her chest infection! :fearful: True story) we may well have chosen to invest in cigarette stocks? But that would have proven ethically questionable over time.

I suppose my point in the original post is to get Pynksters to start considering different assets as critically as they can both financially but also ethically.

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Key words “over time”. Back then no one knew how bad cigarettes were for our health. Now with cannabis, studies are showing health benefits, yet other studies are showing problems-mostly with misuse. That’s where the ethics come in I think. If used for medical purposes and not abused, in my opinion, that is ethical.( Years from now, they may determine it was a bad idea). As mentioned above, what’s ethical to some, may not be ethical to others.

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Well that is the big question. If you invest in a tobacco company it is surely unethical investing per definition.

But is it the wrong thing to do? What is your impact if you decide not to invest, the pool of investors decreases, which means the price of the stock will not reach its objective level due to a lower pool of investors. So the profitability or dividend level of these stocks will be higher. And that means by avoiding unethical investments, you rewards conscious unethical investors as their return on investment will be higher.

Second thing is that there are a lot of stocks border line ethical investment depending on the background and beliefs of the investors, so it will always be difficult to draw a clear line.

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Hi Al! I try to explain my overall meter for what concern INVESTING and ETHICS to go into detail in the “Cannabis” argument.

For most time in my life i saw money as EVIL in absolute. Non ethical stuff at all as i was perceiving money as the source of all bad things in the world.
Then I understood that money as many other things can be also used to do very good and so i decided to MAKE them to build up a better future in an ethical manner.
Money are just instrument…not the cause. The cause is greed, power, etc…

The same is valid for whatever investment we would like to do to make more money, so that eventually in the future we will be able to fund more projects able to EMPOWER POSITIVE OUTCOMES.

Here comes in the ethical question.
Who says to me that THE PROJECT will be ETHICAL? Meaning…will it be sustainable? will it be human, animal, nature friendly and respectful of the health of all the creature involved in the GREAT CYCLE OF LIFE?
My answer is: WE WILL NEVER KNOW.

As for Cannabis it could have a NEGATIVE impact on someone’s life as much as it could have a POSITIVE one on someone else’s.

The fact is that ETHICS changes in base of the observer’s location…from it’s cultural background.

But there’s a thing I know for sure. There are indeed THINGS I LOOK AFTER to establish if the project could run ethically with a good grade of accuracy.
My personal parameters are:

THE PEOPLE behind the project.
THEIR STATEMENTS and COHERENCE through the evolution of the project.
THE IDEAS behind the evolution of the project.

1 - Is it exclusive or inclusive?
2 - Is it universally harming something?
3 - Is it pro-life in general?
4 - Is it respectful of life given rights?

These are my parameters.

Practical Example: A very well known confectionery industry, trough one of the people of its board declare “we think that water should be a private good.”
Does this statement and the idea behind the project, meet my parameters?
1 - no.
2 - Maybe.
3 - Maybe.
4 - ABSOLUTELY NOT.
2 negatives out of 4…the choice is very simple.

Another example: A company decide to invest in DNA research. They say “We could prevent many health issues and we also could make dinosaurs alive again.”
1 - Arguable.
2 - No.
3 - Yes, leaving religion and ideologies aside.
4 - Not relevant.

A Company produces both life saving devices and weapons. STAY AWAY.

These are the basic things i would like to know if it is ETHIC or non ETHIC.

Cannabis: it is just a project. I would be far more interested to invest in A COMPANY with clear MISSION behind. The project the majority of times is arguable. The COMPANY, the PEOPLE and their COHERENCE never lies.

Sorry about this long thing Al and you all. I just wanted to share with you some of my thoughts in regard of the ETHICAL issue.

Best wishes to you all :smiley:

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Hi. I rather prefer investing in companies and/or projects with the most unharmed effects on people or environment as possible. Saying this, I think the hard part to decide is to transparently know the whole supply chain.

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Ah @Tradelta you are a good person, I can see that. and a great Pynkster. Together we (you, I and other Pynksters I mean) will change the world my friend :muscle:

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Yes that’s not always easy @taliesin. But with social investing we can potentially have a lot of power. Large investment power means the power to change the way companies do business towards a more ethical, environmental way

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yes…but is it ethical to change the world? ahahahahah
:joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

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Yes…first we need to build a giant LAZER!!..:rofl:

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https://www.tumelo.com/ is interesting…

They are tracking investment funds and ESG scores and if supporting unethical investment classes such as arms etc.

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@Al_Wallace I understand your dilemma but let’s face the fact that every rational investor looks out for one thing when making an investment and that is PROFIT. What is ethical or unethical is subjective. We know how carbon mono oxide affects the climate but people still invest in companies producing such cars even with the introduction of electronic cars.
Being an ethical investor depends on you level of investment. Example, I have $100 to invest, my priority will obviously be the ROI, on the other hand if I have say $1,000,000 , I am in a comfort zone, and can be Choosey.

Let’s note that what is ethical to @KarenM might not be ethical to any of us.

Great discussion guys.

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I disagree a bit with that @kaabayahaya. I do think it’s possible to invest ethically first. There are so many types of assets, stocks etc that you can literally choose where to invest your money. The secret is just to buy at a fair price.

Especially when we are talking about social investing. Together we will have more influence than as individual investors and I do think this way we can make a real difference by investing in an ethical and financially responsible way

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OK, from that point of view, I totally agree with you. My point was I’m reference to businesses. Investing in Assets is different.

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Well, at the moment my main interest is concerned with work in the Fintech space. Of course, Pynk is my principal investment right now, but I’m also interested in Defi (Decentralized Finance) as it encompasses all of the cutting edge technologies trending as of now.

Personally, the ideological western bias of the last 70 years has done nothing to empower the unbanked/underbanked section of global society. It would seem most of the current batch of Blockchain/Fintechs are trying to redress this imbalance which has impeded economic growth in the southern hemisphere.

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